Jennifer Porton - Owner, Jen's Pro Organizing

Jennifer Porton has always loved making spaces beautiful, functional, and organized.  She's taken that passion and created Jen's Pro Organizing to adapt her skills to her clients personalized needs to make their spaces calming, relaxing and inviting.

 

Troy: Good afternoon, Austin. I hope everyone is doing well. And getting through this week of record high temperatures, probably spending a lot of time inside. Maybe you got a chance to kind of use your pools for the, probably not the first time cause it's Texas. So maybe you're using the pool all year round for that matter down here most of the time. So today I am joined by Jennifer, Portant of, Jen's pro organization, home organizing company here in Austin, Texas. How's it going today, Jen

Jennifer : Great. How are you?

Troy: Doing well, just, you know, Wednesday got a lot of things going on, so it's always hard sometimes as a self-employed person, sorry to keep track of, you know, what the days are sometimes. So, other than that, though, things, things are going well.

Jennifer : Good. Thanks for having me

Troy: Appreciate it. I usually kind of start off the interviews, trying to get a little background, learn a little bit more about, the people that you have kind of started the companies run the companies. Cause I think that's as interesting, like obviously most people can go to somebody's website or have an idea of what a home organizer does, but, but we don't, lots of, we don't know is kind of some of the backstory about how those companies started or the, or the, in the people that run them kind of what their bacteria. So I know for most Austinites, most of us are not originally from the area here. So kind of maybe what's a little bit of your origin story, kind of where you're from, what brought you to, to Austin

Jennifer : Sure. Yeah. I'm originally from New Mexico born and raised. I grew up in Los Alamos. what brought me to Texas, like it came to Austin in 2009, to go to UT I finished my bachelor's, for applied learning and development. And so I actually taught, kindergarten here for about five years. I was born an organizer I've been doing, organizing and staging since I was like four years old. but I didn't really think of it as a career at that time. I don't even remember really organizers being a thing when I was in college. I love teaching and I love the kids, but, it just wasn't serving me anymore. And so I took a pause on that and, it was actually when I got pregnant in 2018 with my daughter really fired that inside me because I wanted to be, a stay at home.

Mom is as much as possible. I didn't want to miss a moment. and so it was somewhat like overnight, I just kind of made a decision and I said, you know what, I'm just gonna do this. And I kinda just jumped in, completely self-made I just made my website and started taking clients and slowly grew my business to where it's now. So, it it's exciting. It's like I said, it's just, it's been what I've been doing my entire life. My brain just works like that and it's just such a blessing to find my true passion and, be able to do it.

Troy: It makes it a lot easier to be busy and work hard when it's something that you enjoy in LA.

Jennifer : Yeah. It's just so fun. I think, you know, the business side of it isn't as exciting for me and it was overwhelming not having any business experience and just diving in and wearing the 40 hats every single day and just somewhat winging it, you know, just like, but, when I'm organized, it's just so worth it. It just all blends together and it's just, I just love it.

Troy: Nice. Had you, had you had any, obviously as a teacher, you're not necessarily an entrepreneur, but like had you had any entrepreneurial tendencies as a younger kid and stuff at all or not really on your radar

Jennifer : Not at all. I was actually something that I just wasn't interested in at all. I just kind of like overwhelmed me. but it was just something that I just, you know, just jumped in and just said, you know, I'm just going to do it. And, I didn't think I was good at it. you know, I just didn't think I would be, but once you try something and like you said, it's connected to something that you love. It it's a lot easier to,

Troy: So just you're, you're willing to do some of the stuff that you maybe don't like as much the bookkeeping, the other, other aspects of it to continue to be able to do what you love to do.

Jennifer : Yeah. Yeah. It's always that. So

Troy: You mentioned kind of, you know, something you just, you know, not one, not, not that you hadn't been doing it a little bit yourself, but really kind of just flipping that switch. Was it challenging to initially kind of find clients that way because you hear some people that'll start, a small business like that and they'll already kind of be doing it as maybe like a side business for people and then kind of build it that way. But in your case it sounded like it was just, Hey, I went from teacher and then stay-at-home mom to deciding to do this. And so was it challenging to, to initially kind of start finding those clients and getting yourself out there

Jennifer : Yeah, it was in the beginning. and when I look back, you know, it was, it was really like frustrating cause I just wanted to get, get in and organize and you know, nobody knew my name and, and you do kind of have to network and build yourself up and, you know, find those referrals. So, you know, it was a slow process in the beginning. it took off faster than I thought it would. And again, I just, you know, I really pushed myself. I'm a pretty shy person and so networking and getting up and speaking was, again, something I didn't want to do, but I did it and it was so worth it because, you know, I built a community. I, and I met great people that all support me and, you know, it's but it definitely was slow in the beginning. Yeah,

Troy: No. And then again, that's the way, obviously, you know, most small businesses end up failing. So the fact that, you know, you made it past that kind of barrier is awesome just in of itself. But, but even from there, like, you know, most people hear the stories of businesses that turn into huge, you know, huge businesses, but in reality, most small businesses take, take time to, to grow, you know, remains a lot smaller than, than we think of. When we think of someone as a business owner, there's a lot of business owners that are solo entrepreneurs or just have a couple of people that work for them that way. And so, there's not nothing wrong. And in fact, a lot of great, great things that go along with being a, a small business that takes, you know, takes his time and kind of keeps chugging along. Yeah. What has been, possibly like say the biggest surprise one may be one positive and one negative as far as starting running your own business, starting a business that you weren't expecting when you first got into it.

Jennifer : I mean, I think that the biggest surprise sometimes was my success. You know, I just kind of, in the beginning, I didn't just didn't know, but I just had this passion and belief that, you know, it just wasn't going to give up. and so sometimes I still kind of pinch myself, you know, I'm like, oh,

Troy: I'm still doing this. I thought it was this. And it's still, I still, I still get paid to do this.

Jennifer : Yeah. and I think that the hardest part was just balancing everything, just being a new mom, starting a new business, you know, you need money to make money, but I didn't have money. And so just really being creative and finding ways to get my name out there when I didn't have, you know, a thousand dollars to put on advertising. And, so I think I answered your question appropriately.

Troy: That was good. Was Austin. So you mentioned moving here for, to go to school at UT was, was kind of moving to Austin, permanently kind of the plan from the onset that way, or were you planning to move back to New Mexico or

Jennifer : No, I don't ever want to go back to Netflix. I do miss the food and my family and the mountains, but, no, I just, I fell in love with Austin. The second I got here and I, I did have a dream of, you know, traveling overseas and teaching overseas. but that never happened. And I don't know if I'll ever leave Austin. I love it here so much.

Troy: And it's harder to not, not that it'd be impossible but harder to do the home organizing stuff remotely or, or travel and do that. Like not in today's world. There's a lot of jobs that have started to go remote where people can kind of travel and still do their, you know, tech, engineering job or other types of things, but a little bit, a little bit more challenging to do so, in the home organizing space.

Jennifer : Yeah. You'd have to be really big, like the home edit or something too, to be able to do that someday, maybe.

Troy: Yeah. do, when it comes to home organization, do you tend to do more kind of like whole home projects or focus on, where your clients ask you to focus on a certain room or a certain part of the home Does it, I mean, I'm sure you do both, but is there tend to be one that's more common than the other

Jennifer : It definitely fluctuates. Every client is so different. and I worked for businesses to get them organized. but typically it's usually like a space, maybe like a pantry or a playroom. a lot of times clients will just start with one area, you know, they'll have me in for their pantry and then realized, you know what, I need my linen closet. I need my master closet. And so we'll kind of slowly go through their whole, whole home. but it really just kind of depends. I have some repeat clients that I just work with, like maintaining their space. Everyone is so busy that even if they can't organize, they don't have the time. And so they just schedule regular maintenance. so it really does just fluctuate, but pantries and kitchens, are pretty high up there.

Troy: Yeah. Do those, do you have a favorite room of the house to organize

Jennifer : I don't. I do. And I don't, I literally love everything. So my motto is like, if it needs organizing, I can do it. but I do love pantries and master closets. They're just really fun.

Troy: I also seem to be kind of catch-alls and a lot of cases, too, as people continue to collect new clothes or, you know, we, as we buy food that kind of ends up hiding in the back of the pantry. And, you know, again, it's hard, harder, for people think to kind of keep those places more organized Pasa, partially cause of they get kind of out of sight out of mind. Like you notice it when you have to go use it, which is every day for those two areas, but you only have to use them very briefly. And then you get to close the are and kind of forget about it. So it's kind of like, eh, we'll get to it later.

Jennifer : Yeah, it is. I mean, I've had a lot of clients just talk about how life-changing it is, you know, cause you are in your kitchen every single day and saves you money because you, don't not buying food that you already had and you're not expired letting things expire. And the whole family can kind of, you know, take note on everything and, you know, be a part of it. so yeah, it really, really does help, but yes, shutting the door is a very common thing, to shut the door, not going to look at it and not going to deal with it today.

Troy: It's kind of, if you want to be watch friends growing up at all, but it's kinda like the Monica closet of like, if I can just lock that one closet door, that can just be the place where I don't have to have it all on that same vein. Do you have a least favorite room to try to organize at all Or

Jennifer : some, I guess it would be a garage just because it's just so hot a lot. and then there's, you know, the risk of like tarantulas or scorpions. I haven't had any like bad experiences yet, so it's just a lot more, labor, you know, it's building shelves and things like that. So, I mean, I don't do like the built-ins, but there is some building that I do. So just a little more strenuous, but as soon as I see a space that needs organizing, I really do just get excited and just wanting to dive in.

Troy: Yeah. Do you find since, you know, again, do you find that a lot of your clients, once they get one of those spaces done, you mentioned, do you do the majority of them are a lot of them end up been trying to get other spaces done because they understand how beneficial it's been for them at that point

Jennifer : Yes, definitely. Yeah. Sometimes they need to space it out, you know, because it is an investment of time and money. but most of the time they're like, okay, this is just adding so much value to my life that it was so worth it, that they do just want to move through their home and get every space organized. So,

Troy: do you run into clients at all who want to get a space organized, but like can't so like, I guess with the organic, with when someone hires you or they, are you, they just kind of giving you free reign to do whatever you want or are they usually involved in that process of like, Hey, I need your help getting this set up the way that I would like it or the way that you think would be best for me, or is it to, are they, how involved usually are the homeowners in the decisions that get made

Jennifer : I would say it's pretty split. I do have a lot of clients that are like, I don't care, just do it, make it pretty, make it functional. and then I do have some that really just want to work alongside with me. And, it kind of depends on the space, you know, how personal it is. And, and I really try to, even if a client isn't involved, you know, whether they they're working and I'm just in their home organizing, I really have a conversation with them and understand their particular needs because it has to be functional for them and their system and their family. So that's always tied in, but, I think it's just split, you know, and I, I don't prefer either one. I love working alongside the client. I also love just, you know, exploring, I always check in with them and make sure that, you know, the styles. Right. And, and then I just kind of move forward with the design.

Troy: Do you have any memorable, a memorable story or two that kind of pops out for one of the clients that you've helped either maybe you didn't, maybe you couldn't, for whatever reason you couldn't help help them for some reason, not that that probably happens to Optum, but, a memorable story there. Obviously we can keep, you know, change the names to protect the innocent kind of situation, but, any memorable kind of unique stories that you run into.

Jennifer : I think I've just had a couple clients reach out to me and just tell me, you know, just very emotional, just of how, life-changing it was for them and how, you know, they've just added, I've just added so much value to their life, you know, just eliminating the chaos and the distractions. so those are like, I have a couple of heartwarming stories, you know, where I've just really helped a family, you know, thrive in their daily life and, eliminate, you know, chaos. I did work with one client that, you know, it was a very sentimental situation where, you know, they lost someone and so you're left with their belongings. and so that's a tough process, you know, but it's, it's really nice to have somebody there to guide them and help them make the decisions on, you know, what, what items should they keep and what serves them versus, holding onto something just because it was somebody that they loved. so

Troy: Yeah, that's always, I mean, yeah, challenging in a situation like that too, especially for a lot of people, again, because a lot of people tend to hold on to more stuff than they should in general. But then when it's someone in a case like that, where they've passed away, it's like, you feel like you're throwing part of them in their life. Oh, wait. In that case, which, which isn't, which isn't true. but it doesn't mean that that doesn't feel that way potentially for somebody

Jennifer : It does. And I, and I can relate to that. So I just have a lot of compassion and empathy for my clients in that those situations. So it can be a longer process, but, you know, it's, it's worth it to help them guide them through that.

Troy: Sure. Aside from a kind of more unique situation like that, what tends to be the biggest, challenge for someone that's trying to get things or, you know, a room or pantry or their house organized, like what tends to be, is there kind of an overriding theme or factor that PR is PR prevents people from being more organized

Jennifer : I think everyone has a different level of organization. I think that a lot of the problems in most people's homes is conscious or unconscious purchasing. You know, we live in a consumerism moral where things are just coming into your home so often, you know, with Amazon and you go to target and you just, oh, I like that. I want to buy that. And, and you're not really thinking about how the item serves you. And, so I think that an abundance of items in your home is really the key to being disorganized because you can only have the space or the item. And so when you have so much coming in and not going out, cause a lot of times it's the going out is the hard part. So, I think that's a pretty common theme in a lot of my clients. And it's also too, if you don't have a system and you don't know what you have, you're over buying and you're buying the same thing. And, and so then you have this abundance of stuff to organize. So when you declutter and let things go and really only have what you need, it's a lot easier to stay organized.

Troy: Sure. Now it's definitely a, one of those kinds of first world problems, I guess, for lack of a better word, right Like that you're not able to stay organized as B in most cases, because you have an abundance of food. If it's a pantry clothes, if it's your master master bedroom, closet and stuff. And so, yeah, it's, it's very easy to click on the shopping cart in online and say, oh, that looks, that looks great, but oh, I don't necessarily have a place in my house. That'll happen. so it doesn't that specific that isn't, that has happened. But anytime I have, like, if I have a client that's moving in, if they're getting a larger house, they'll a lot of times be like, wow. I mean, we're going from a two bedroom apartment to a four bedroom house. Like we're just not going to have enough stuff for the house. And I'm like, you, you will like, everyone finds a way to fill it up. Like I don't ever have someone a year later and they're like, oh yeah, we still just, we have this extra bedroom. We've just never bought enough stuff to put anything in there. And it's just left, left, empty, like that, that doesn't, doesn't ever happen that way.

Jennifer : You'll fill the space.

Troy: Yeah. do you, for someone who's trying to just be more organized themselves. So aside from being more conscious with their purchases and not adding to what are you use more than likely in a disorganized space cause, that, in that regard, what, are there any other kind of tips or things that you recommend to, for someone that's trying to be more organized

Jennifer : Yeah. I think that once you go through your items and you really, just keep the items that you love, you need and that you use, making sure every item has, this has a home. if you don't have a place to put it, it's gonna become a clutter zone, a drop zone, and you might not even use that item. so really just, if he doesn't have a home, either find another home for it or make a home for it, you know, you can create a system for it. and you know, just decluttering often and, you know, kind of it's, it's a process, you know, once you get organized, you have to stay organized, you have to clean your house, you know So just kind of making that time, you know, even 15 minutes a week, just kind of scanning your areas and, you know, getting everything back in order and just kind of taking stock of what you have.

I think is really helpful. It's just something you want to be conscious of kind of, not all the time, but just letting go. one in and one out is a great rule. If you buy something, you know, that's great, you want to buy new stuff. It's never going to really stop, but, taking, you know, 15 minutes on the weekend to go through and letting go of something, you know, I'm having that issue with my daughter, her voice, you know, I'm like so many things that it just becomes overwhelming. And so, and then just tackle one space at a time, you know, just if you look at your whole home and you're just stressed out, just, you know, just do one drawer, one little space at a time, so you don't get overwhelmed and burnt out and eventually it'll all be seamless.

Troy: And do you feel like that is your, so as someone who loves someone who loves to be organized, is that kind of always been the case for you ever since you were a lot younger, like as like, as a kid, did you have the right number of toys or, or maybe, you know, maybe a little bit older that you kind of were, organized with your trapper keeper or whatever that was as you were younger kid kind of growing up as well

Jennifer : Yeah. I, I just like grab it. I just can't, function or like relaxed in a cluttered room and, and I just, I just have to, like, I just have to organize before, you know, when my daughter walks around the house and drops bombs everywhere, you know, like before we play, I just clear up real quick, you know, it only takes like five minutes, but yeah, I'm constantly, organizing, but I mean, I love it, you know, so even on the weekends where I'm like, I should take a break, but I'm like, let's, let's reorganize this or let's edit this. I have a, I have a weird brain, but I do love it. So for somebody that doesn't love it, you know, just getting that system and then just up-keeping, it'll like, it won't take up too much time and it'll be easy to maintain,

Troy: Like, like for a lot of things with people, whether it's your fitness, whether it's staying organized, whether it's your finances, like for most people, they tend to try to ignore it as long as they can, until it can't be ignored. And then it's a huge, then it's a big job to tackle instead of trying to stay on top of things and then making it a part of their daily or weekly or monthly routine and making it know much, a much easier thing to do, less time consuming. and just a habit that you kind of get into anyway. Right Like say the one in one out, if you're kind of in that routine, it's really easy. It's much easier to probably do that then, you know, again at then come spring, cleaning time to realize, okay, we had 97 things come in, we better find the 97 things that go out. That's a lot more challenging process at that point in time.

Jennifer : Yeah. It can be, it can be overwhelming. so just start small and be gentle with yourself.

Troy: What is, do you have, do you have any, so you mentioned you do some business stuff and some residential. Are there any, specific areas that you are trying to do more of Like, I mean for a business, I guess, is it like business space, like an office space or is it like a whole business, like potentially a restaurant or a whole office floor or something like that Or is it more specialized

Jennifer : most of the time that I've been hired, it's just like paperwork and like creating a system for the business or this, small business owner. I haven't asked, I didn't actually do the job, but to organize the restaurant. so like I said, if it needs organizing, you know, I, I could do it, setting up an office space, getting a system, or helping, you know, a business, thrive better with like an organized space for a restaurant. For example, typically it's, it's just families for the most part,

Troy: More residential individuals, family stuff that way. do, and then do you have, so like, obviously you're here in Austin, do you have an area that you tend to work in more, more so like say a lot, a lot of businesses, especially in Austin tended to be south Austin based or north Austin base is that,

Jennifer : I probably more south. I'm definitely Lakeway BKS dripping, south Austin, but I do have some clients up north and, you know, I've even gone to Taylor and, you know, if I'm not fully booked, you know, I can make it farther out.

Troy: It's a lot like real estate life. Like you tend to be a little bit more kind of geographically centered most of the time. But if, if the situation calls for that can, can change a little bit too. And there's obviously plenty of growth happening out in Lakeway and dripping Springs and stuff, or, or people that will need a home organization.

Jennifer : Yeah, a lot of people moving, which is a great time to get organized, you know cause when you move, you tend to let go of a lot cause you don't want to move it hopefully. So it's a good purging and then like setting up your home is, is key. Cause then you're set, you know, if you, if you wait till you've moved in for awhile, then it's a little bit harder, but so I've helped people just on, on move day, I go in and set up their kitchen or bathroom. And so it's just set from day one.

Troy: Do you ha do you do much as far as, moving out, like, I mean, so like here in Austin it feels like a lot of people, I mean, we obviously do it, people that are moving just within Lakeway or different parts of Austin, but obviously a lot of people moving from outside of the area as well, too. So in a case like that, if you're moving from California, you're not going to be able to help the whole with the people, with the move outside of things. But do you get the opportunity for some people locally to help with both the move out and the move in Cause that would seem to be a, a perfect opportunity. Like you say, to get rid of help, get rid of some of the stuff before you even move it, because once you start to move it, it feels like you feel like you've put in the work to where you don't necessarily want to get rid of it as you're moving it into the, to the new home.

Jennifer : Yeah. Yeah. I have. I've helped, families pack up, very organized moves. So when they do move in, everything's labeled ready to go even color-coded sometimes. And then they're able to just, set up 30 space. The organizing products is the tricky part when you move because you have to remeasure and a lot of times rebuy products because they don't fit in that space. But just getting it done when you move as is key, I think

Troy: Yeah. As the fortunate thing, I think for a lot of people, as we tend to move a lot more frequently than families used to. So that makes it easier that way. but on the downside though, you say, then you're moving into a new home that has slightly different dimensions or a slightly different set up. So then if you also feel the need of, oh, I need, now I need a new bookcase or I need a new TV or I need new stuff to go with the new house. And so that then leads to now I have more stuff than I should have.

Jennifer : Yes. I've actually had that. I've had to move three times in the last three years from the pandemic. So cause we were renting and each owner sold their home. So it's very chaotic, very stressful. And, and yeah, you have to just start over and if you don't own, you know, it's, it's a lot.

Troy: Yes, no, the moving has never been, I've done it, for Hampton number of times a mile or two, but generally tend not to because it's like, eh, I'd rather, it's not that packing, packing always takes so much longer than you anticipate. It should take. You it's like some stuff in a room that should only be like 20, 30 minutes and three hours later. You're like, oh, am I still packing stuff in this

Jennifer : Boxes Yeah.

Troy: Yeah. Nice. so for people who are looking to maybe get more information or more tips, what are kind of some of the best ways to, either reach out or kind of follow you, I'm sure you provide some of that information tips and tricks and stuff, on your website and socials.

Jennifer : Yeah. Yeah. My Instagram is great. and then, you know, you can find me my website and you know, you can just call me or text me, email, all the things whatever's easier for you and very easy to get ahold of.

Troy: It's one of the, one of the nice things. And one of the challenging things as a small business owner is you need to be easy to get ahold of, but sometimes you're like, I'm too easy to get ahold of.

Jennifer : Yeah. I had to learn that, put up some boundaries where it's like, okay, I'm not going to work on the weekends. Cause I would, I was like, I don't ever clock out. You never clock out. So, but you gotta be quick too, which is

Troy: Yes. It's. Yeah. It's that again It's definitely a, it's a balancing act rights in that regard. So the same way that home organizing is, but it's a balancing act as far as like just making sure that you're there when your customers need you, but you also set some boundaries so you can have a life and again, enjoy the time with your daughter, which was one of the reasons you got into, you know, the stay-at-home moms stuff and the home organizing stuff to begin with.

Jennifer : Yeah.

Troy: Nice. any kind of final words of advice for someone that's trying to get more organized

Jennifer : Yeah. I think I would just say, you know, again, just start small, or it's, if you look at it, you know, your whole house or even a closet, you know, that's filled with boxes and you just want to shut the door, just take one box out, you know, just, just move really slow or as fast as you can. And you know, when it's, it's a really pain point for you and you really just not enjoying it, then that's, you know, when you should outsource, you know, and just get some help. I've been hired just to help, you know, sit with somebody and help them declutter because they won't sit there for two hours to do it. And they're like, you know, I can do this myself, but I won't. So I, I need you to sit with me and just keep me on track. but yeah, I just think it's just start small and then, you know, just start being conscious of what you're bringing into your home and just really, really think about it. Do you, do you need this Do you love this And are you going to use it And if it's a no to any of those, then you know, you can always buy it later, but maybe just take a pause and you know, in a couple of days, if you still really want it, then you can do it just small practices of just being a little more aware because when you have less in your home, you have less to organize. And so, you know, it'll feel better, it'll be better and it'll just be nicer having a calm room.

Troy: Yeah. It's one of those situations where less is actually more, in some cases

Jennifer : It really is. It really is. That's the feeling you get from an organized, clean space is just, it's priceless. I think, you know, we are also busy and we're out, you know, all the time doing all the things. And so when you come home, you just want to decompress and relax, but you're immediately hit with anxiety because of all the clutter or disorganization, you know, it really takes away from that rest for you. So I really think that your home is a great place to start, you know, moving forward that cause it's, it's powerful to be able to just breathe in a room.

Troy: Very, very true. The other thing. So as a realtor to mention to people as well too, is that, well, social media can be a great place to kind of get inspiration. Like don't always think that that's, you know, that that's usually the highlight of what someone's organized space looks like in a lot of cases or, right. So where we have to do, photos for someone's house to list it. And it's like, oh, this looks amazing. It's, you know, they're able to keep it organized. And in most cases they're not, it's just like you say, everything's behind doors or their garage suddenly doesn't hold both cars because we had to move a bunch of stuff in there. And so, there's ways, especially through social media and online things to kind of use some shadows and mirrors to, to make things look better than they are. But, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't still try to get to some of those places if you can. But, it's all about just taking small steps and moving at your own pace.

Jennifer : Yeah. Cool.

Troy: Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to chat. It's always, being in the real estate space, there's always a lot of home organization things going on and we can all, be more organized in a lot of different things that we do. So it's great to hear some tips and tricks and some hope that know that there's hope out there for all of us to be a little bit more organized.

Jennifer : Yeah. Anything, if you know the budget, is it something, you know, there's so many creative ways that you can organize a space and not have to spend so much money. So for anyone out there, you know, there's definitely a way, so, yeah.

Troy: Awesome. Well, I really appreciate you taking the time today to jump onto the podcast and, we will talk to everyone soon.

Jennifer : Awesome. Thank you for having me.

Troy: Thanks. Have a great day, everyone.